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	<title>Comments on: Hotties and feminism</title>
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	<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/</link>
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		<title>By: La Gringa</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2675</link>
		<dc:creator>La Gringa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2675</guid>
		<description>Well, dang - if you&#039;d ever seen the thirty-second beauty routine that Liz pulls almost as an afterthought as she is running out the door, you&#039;d laugh your butt off. It&#039;s like &quot;Oh, I should wear shoes, right? Okay, good shoes....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, dang &#8211; if you&#8217;d ever seen the thirty-second beauty routine that Liz pulls almost as an afterthought as she is running out the door, you&#8217;d laugh your butt off. It&#8217;s like &#8220;Oh, I should wear shoes, right? Okay, good shoes&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Yaron</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2668</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2668</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I think the whole smart vs. beauty thing comes, or at least should come if at all, from a different direction. 

There&#039;s no obvious correlation between how smart or intelligent someone is, and how well they look. Well, barring things like nutrition as a child, affects on and of money, etc, etc, which aren&#039;t the issue here in the general case.

What does have a noticeable either/or effect is how much effort and time people are putting into their look. Because that&#039;s a limited resource. People who are good looking can certainly be smart as well. Often are. I know people of all four combinations of brains and beauty, from both genders.
But someone who will spend two-three hours each day arranging their hair, fingernails, and make-up, picking just the right clothes, shoes, wallet... well... have about two-three hours less every day to do other things with. And these time figures aren&#039;t made up, I know real people who take this long. 

If someone enjoys this &quot;prettying up&quot; process, that&#039;s an entirely different matter, of course. Nothing against it as a hobby. But there are people, more women than men, who claim not to enjoy it, but that they have to spend this time or they won&#039;t look good enough.

Someone who don&#039;t put so much effort, if they have to go out in the evening, can do something like, erm, read a book, until quite a short while before they have to get quickly dressed and ready to leave.
But someone who needs hours to get ready, just for the sake of beauty/hotness, well, may very well prove to be statistically less intelligent/smart/capable/etc eventually.
Not because of how they look, but because at how much they invest just in order to look like it all the time.

It&#039;s both the actual time, and the fact that the looks matter to the person enough to invest that time. Usually it will mean that the person cares about their looks a lot more than they care about their brain. 

So when I see a really good looking woman, but her hair and make-up (and so on) look meticulously done, like they took a lot of work to get &quot;just right&quot;, the natural first impression will indeed be that her looks are either all she has, or at least all she cares about.

Though I guess that if it becomes a rule then it&#039;s just an encouragement to taking even more time to get the fake &quot;I just put something on and went&quot; natural-like look. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I think the whole smart vs. beauty thing comes, or at least should come if at all, from a different direction. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no obvious correlation between how smart or intelligent someone is, and how well they look. Well, barring things like nutrition as a child, affects on and of money, etc, etc, which aren&#8217;t the issue here in the general case.</p>
<p>What does have a noticeable either/or effect is how much effort and time people are putting into their look. Because that&#8217;s a limited resource. People who are good looking can certainly be smart as well. Often are. I know people of all four combinations of brains and beauty, from both genders.<br />
But someone who will spend two-three hours each day arranging their hair, fingernails, and make-up, picking just the right clothes, shoes, wallet&#8230; well&#8230; have about two-three hours less every day to do other things with. And these time figures aren&#8217;t made up, I know real people who take this long. </p>
<p>If someone enjoys this &#8220;prettying up&#8221; process, that&#8217;s an entirely different matter, of course. Nothing against it as a hobby. But there are people, more women than men, who claim not to enjoy it, but that they have to spend this time or they won&#8217;t look good enough.</p>
<p>Someone who don&#8217;t put so much effort, if they have to go out in the evening, can do something like, erm, read a book, until quite a short while before they have to get quickly dressed and ready to leave.<br />
But someone who needs hours to get ready, just for the sake of beauty/hotness, well, may very well prove to be statistically less intelligent/smart/capable/etc eventually.<br />
Not because of how they look, but because at how much they invest just in order to look like it all the time.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s both the actual time, and the fact that the looks matter to the person enough to invest that time. Usually it will mean that the person cares about their looks a lot more than they care about their brain. </p>
<p>So when I see a really good looking woman, but her hair and make-up (and so on) look meticulously done, like they took a lot of work to get &#8220;just right&#8221;, the natural first impression will indeed be that her looks are either all she has, or at least all she cares about.</p>
<p>Though I guess that if it becomes a rule then it&#8217;s just an encouragement to taking even more time to get the fake &#8220;I just put something on and went&#8221; natural-like look. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna Hoak</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2659</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Hoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2659</guid>
		<description>Colleen: Yeah, I&#039;ve seen that, too. And while I&#039;ve seen a few guys react the same way to a good-looking guy, it seems much less common.

Beth: And you know, attractiveness is made up of a lot of things that people are not born with: the clothes they wear, their level of fitness, the way they present themselves, and so on. It&#039;s something people work on.

And I agree: I have never once bought a book because of the way the author looked. 

Bex: Welcome. Yeah, I hate it that girls are still getting the message that they can only be one or the other. Even &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; daughter is picking that up. I was attempting (pathetically, as I grew up a tomboy and never learned the skill) to paint my fingernails last night, and she told me, &quot;You know, Mom, I don&#039;t have to learn to paint my fingernails, because I&#039;m going to be a rocket scientist, and rocket scientists are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; beauty people.&quot; *sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colleen: Yeah, I&#8217;ve seen that, too. And while I&#8217;ve seen a few guys react the same way to a good-looking guy, it seems much less common.</p>
<p>Beth: And you know, attractiveness is made up of a lot of things that people are not born with: the clothes they wear, their level of fitness, the way they present themselves, and so on. It&#8217;s something people work on.</p>
<p>And I agree: I have never once bought a book because of the way the author looked. </p>
<p>Bex: Welcome. Yeah, I hate it that girls are still getting the message that they can only be one or the other. Even <i>my</i> daughter is picking that up. I was attempting (pathetically, as I grew up a tomboy and never learned the skill) to paint my fingernails last night, and she told me, &#8220;You know, Mom, I don&#8217;t have to learn to paint my fingernails, because I&#8217;m going to be a rocket scientist, and rocket scientists are <i>not</i> beauty people.&#8221; *sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: Bex</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>Bex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2656</guid>
		<description>I just stumbled upon this site via my friend Kaytie. Weird thing is that I wrote an outline for a blog about pretty vs smart last night. I didn&#039;t realize it was such a hot topic though. Well done, and thanks for the read.

La Gringa (colleen?): I think the reason it is mostly women who believe pretty=smart is because they are jealous of the women who are both. When I was younger I often found myself trying to find flaws in extremely beautiful women because I felt like I didn&#039;t add up. I think those women who have put themselves in the &quot;smart&quot; category may have the same obssession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just stumbled upon this site via my friend Kaytie. Weird thing is that I wrote an outline for a blog about pretty vs smart last night. I didn&#8217;t realize it was such a hot topic though. Well done, and thanks for the read.</p>
<p>La Gringa (colleen?): I think the reason it is mostly women who believe pretty=smart is because they are jealous of the women who are both. When I was younger I often found myself trying to find flaws in extremely beautiful women because I felt like I didn&#8217;t add up. I think those women who have put themselves in the &#8220;smart&#8221; category may have the same obssession.</p>
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		<title>By: Archangel Beth</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator>Archangel Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2655</guid>
		<description>Jealousy? Desire to have a &quot;niche&quot;? Outrage that the GM didn&#039;t give the same number of points to spend? Attempts at punishing the min-maxers who could get Appearance and IQ at the same time?

Frankly, the concept that someone could sell a book by being &lt;i&gt;attractive&lt;/i&gt;... boggles me a bit. Who&#039;s looking at the author when they see that sucker in the slushpile? Better to get a cute agent, or one with a great phone voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jealousy? Desire to have a &#8220;niche&#8221;? Outrage that the GM didn&#8217;t give the same number of points to spend? Attempts at punishing the min-maxers who could get Appearance and IQ at the same time?</p>
<p>Frankly, the concept that someone could sell a book by being <i>attractive</i>&#8230; boggles me a bit. Who&#8217;s looking at the author when they see that sucker in the slushpile? Better to get a cute agent, or one with a great phone voice.</p>
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		<title>By: La Gringa</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2650</link>
		<dc:creator>La Gringa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2650</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say the latter, actually. I wanted people to ntake China seriously, but sometimes the media focused entirely on how pretty he is. I think it&#039;s worse for pretty women who are writers... And I have also found that the biggest culprit in assuming that pretty = dumb are in fact OTHER WOMEN. It makes no sense to me at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say the latter, actually. I wanted people to ntake China seriously, but sometimes the media focused entirely on how pretty he is. I think it&#8217;s worse for pretty women who are writers&#8230; And I have also found that the biggest culprit in assuming that pretty = dumb are in fact OTHER WOMEN. It makes no sense to me at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna Hoak</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2649</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Hoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2649</guid>
		<description>Colleen: Do you notice a double standard that way--that people are more apt to decide a woman only sold a book because of her looks, while good-looking men don&#039;t catch the same flak? Or do you not notice it in either direction? It does seem sometimes as though attractive people have to be &lt;i&gt;extra&lt;/i&gt; good to prove that they didn&#039;t make the cut because of their looks instead of their brains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colleen: Do you notice a double standard that way&#8211;that people are more apt to decide a woman only sold a book because of her looks, while good-looking men don&#8217;t catch the same flak? Or do you not notice it in either direction? It does seem sometimes as though attractive people have to be <i>extra</i> good to prove that they didn&#8217;t make the cut because of their looks instead of their brains.</p>
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		<title>By: La Gringa</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2648</link>
		<dc:creator>La Gringa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2648</guid>
		<description>When I was a publicist at Del Rey, I went out of my way to promote China Mieville&#039;s good looks when I was doing anything at all with him. I never got any backlash for it, and it did help break him out in the states. 

The fact is, when you are in competition for that wee tiny slice of shelf space with more than 100,000 new books annually, you use what you have, and if you have a pretty face, well then hell - make it work for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a publicist at Del Rey, I went out of my way to promote China Mieville&#8217;s good looks when I was doing anything at all with him. I never got any backlash for it, and it did help break him out in the states. </p>
<p>The fact is, when you are in competition for that wee tiny slice of shelf space with more than 100,000 new books annually, you use what you have, and if you have a pretty face, well then hell &#8211; make it work for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna Hoak</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2647</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Hoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2647</guid>
		<description>Gwenda: Thanks!

Kaytie: Yeah, GalleyCat did a great job covering that. I haven&#039;t noticed any backlash when the author&#039;s a good-looking guy, either; I&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s there or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gwenda: Thanks!</p>
<p>Kaytie: Yeah, GalleyCat did a great job covering that. I haven&#8217;t noticed any backlash when the author&#8217;s a good-looking guy, either; I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s there or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaytie</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-2646</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaytie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 18:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/08/19/hotties-and-feminism/#comment-2646</guid>
		<description>(I didn&#039;t realize how well covered this subject is on Galleycat.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I didn&#8217;t realize how well covered this subject is on Galleycat.)</p>
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