<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ponderings</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/</link>
	<description>SF/F Copyeditor</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:44:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deanna Hoak</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3699</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Hoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3699</guid>
		<description>Green Knight: Well, if a geographic term has a different name in English than in its native country and if the novel is not set in that native country, Iâ€™m definitely in favor of presenting the word in English. Most readers would of course be confused if, in reading a novel set in the U.S., they encountered a word in a different alphabet; it would also seem awkward to most of them to see &lt;em&gt;Deutschland&lt;/em&gt; instead of  â€œGermanyâ€ and &lt;em&gt;EspaÃ±a&lt;/em&gt; for â€œSpainâ€ and â€œAfricaâ€ in whatever any of the multitudinous languages of that continent call it. (Sometimes, for the needs of a particular book that is set in the native country or that has a character from that country, you might want the original termâ€“Iâ€™m just saying in general.)

I definitely try to make sure foreign words are correct. If I encounter languages other than English in a book, I verify them as well as I can, through looking them up in dictionaries, through Googling, through talking with native speakers, through checking the grammar books I have left from my masterâ€™s in linguisticsâ€“whatever I have at my disposal. I query the author with any lingering doubts.

Once any word appears in an English dictionary, though, it is considered to have passed into English. You arenâ€™t required to italicize it (you donâ€™t ordinarily italicize foreign proper nouns in an English context anyway), and eventually the diacritical marks might be lost. The spelling might change. Thatâ€™s just the natural process. Depending on the setting of the book, I might choose to treat such a term as a foreign word still, because it might not have become part of English at the point in history thatâ€™s being depicted.

(Iâ€™m inordinately fond of this quote by James Nicoll, btw: â€œThe problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We donâ€™t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.â€)

When a â€œforeignâ€ word is not considered to be foreign in the context in which it is placed (such as a word in a language that the characters are all assumed to be speaking anyway, despite the necessity of writing the majority of the narrative in English), I also donâ€™t italicize unless the author has a strong preference for it; doing so can junk up the manuscript unnecessarily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Green Knight: Well, if a geographic term has a different name in English than in its native country and if the novel is not set in that native country, Iâ€™m definitely in favor of presenting the word in English. Most readers would of course be confused if, in reading a novel set in the U.S., they encountered a word in a different alphabet; it would also seem awkward to most of them to see <em>Deutschland</em> instead of  â€œGermanyâ€ and <em>EspaÃ±a</em> for â€œSpainâ€ and â€œAfricaâ€ in whatever any of the multitudinous languages of that continent call it. (Sometimes, for the needs of a particular book that is set in the native country or that has a character from that country, you might want the original termâ€“Iâ€™m just saying in general.)</p>
<p>I definitely try to make sure foreign words are correct. If I encounter languages other than English in a book, I verify them as well as I can, through looking them up in dictionaries, through Googling, through talking with native speakers, through checking the grammar books I have left from my masterâ€™s in linguisticsâ€“whatever I have at my disposal. I query the author with any lingering doubts.</p>
<p>Once any word appears in an English dictionary, though, it is considered to have passed into English. You arenâ€™t required to italicize it (you donâ€™t ordinarily italicize foreign proper nouns in an English context anyway), and eventually the diacritical marks might be lost. The spelling might change. Thatâ€™s just the natural process. Depending on the setting of the book, I might choose to treat such a term as a foreign word still, because it might not have become part of English at the point in history thatâ€™s being depicted.</p>
<p>(Iâ€™m inordinately fond of this quote by James Nicoll, btw: â€œThe problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We donâ€™t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.â€)</p>
<p>When a â€œforeignâ€ word is not considered to be foreign in the context in which it is placed (such as a word in a language that the characters are all assumed to be speaking anyway, despite the necessity of writing the majority of the narrative in English), I also donâ€™t italicize unless the author has a strong preference for it; doing so can junk up the manuscript unnecessarily.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: green_knight</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3693</link>
		<dc:creator>green_knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 10:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3693</guid>
		<description>Deanna,
what&#039;s your stance on &#039;we&#039;re writing in English&#039;? Because this reader is appalled when a writer chooses corruptions over correctness. Once a word has fully passed into the English language, that is another matter, but as long as it is still noticably not-English, shouldn&#039;t one strive to get it _right_? 

If you encounter languages other than English in a text, what do you do - leave them as is, check them against the appropriate dictionary, google...?

One of the things that drives me up walls is encountering bad German/French/anything else I happen to recognise in a text. To me it&#039;s on par with bad science, because it could have been done better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deanna,<br />
what&#8217;s your stance on &#8216;we&#8217;re writing in English&#8217;? Because this reader is appalled when a writer chooses corruptions over correctness. Once a word has fully passed into the English language, that is another matter, but as long as it is still noticably not-English, shouldn&#8217;t one strive to get it _right_? </p>
<p>If you encounter languages other than English in a text, what do you do &#8211; leave them as is, check them against the appropriate dictionary, google&#8230;?</p>
<p>One of the things that drives me up walls is encountering bad German/French/anything else I happen to recognise in a text. To me it&#8217;s on par with bad science, because it could have been done better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amanda Brooks</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3673</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 15:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3673</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m late to the game since I visit this blog only once a week. 

I&#039;m writing non-fiction on an apparently controversial subject. I&#039;m going the self-publishing route (not POD) and spent some time searching for a freelance editor to work with. I have a number of stories about editors, most of the ones I&#039;ve written are negative. 

--Two freelancers who don&#039;t have my best interests at heart.
http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/09/21/professional-freelance-editors/

--How freelance editors often outsource work.
http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/06/14/the-dirty-truth-behind-editors/

--General grousing by me about the whole search for an editor.
http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/09/15/what-is-normal/

--The search for a freelance editor begins.
http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/08/24/my-everlasting-book-project-part-i/

I don&#039;t know what it&#039;s like to work with an editor through a company (like a publisher or a magazine) but the freelance editor world is something else. 

On the other hand, I think the editor I chose to work with is great and I highly recommend her. Marg Gilks at: http://www.scripta-word-services.com/

I don&#039;t know if this was the sort of feedback you were hoping for, Deanna. But thanks for bringing up the topic.

Amanda</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late to the game since I visit this blog only once a week. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m writing non-fiction on an apparently controversial subject. I&#8217;m going the self-publishing route (not POD) and spent some time searching for a freelance editor to work with. I have a number of stories about editors, most of the ones I&#8217;ve written are negative. </p>
<p>&#8211;Two freelancers who don&#8217;t have my best interests at heart.<br />
<a href="http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/09/21/professional-freelance-editors/" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/09/21/professional-freelance-editors/</a></p>
<p>&#8211;How freelance editors often outsource work.<br />
<a href="http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/06/14/the-dirty-truth-behind-editors/" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2006/06/14/the-dirty-truth-behind-editors/</a></p>
<p>&#8211;General grousing by me about the whole search for an editor.<br />
<a href="http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/09/15/what-is-normal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/09/15/what-is-normal/</a></p>
<p>&#8211;The search for a freelance editor begins.<br />
<a href="http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/08/24/my-everlasting-book-project-part-i/" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasgoldengirl.com/afterhours/2005/08/24/my-everlasting-book-project-part-i/</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like to work with an editor through a company (like a publisher or a magazine) but the freelance editor world is something else. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think the editor I chose to work with is great and I highly recommend her. Marg Gilks at: <a href="http://www.scripta-word-services.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.scripta-word-services.com/</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if this was the sort of feedback you were hoping for, Deanna. But thanks for bringing up the topic.</p>
<p>Amanda</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kaytie</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3646</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaytie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3646</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any copyediting stories yet, other than my own palm smacking my forehead when I catch yet another error in pages I&#039;ve gone over a thousand times myself. 

But I do want to say I&#039;ve been reading closely because this is an area of the business I know little about.

If I ever do get a story to tell, I&#039;ll send it to you, Deanna. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any copyediting stories yet, other than my own palm smacking my forehead when I catch yet another error in pages I&#8217;ve gone over a thousand times myself. </p>
<p>But I do want to say I&#8217;ve been reading closely because this is an area of the business I know little about.</p>
<p>If I ever do get a story to tell, I&#8217;ll send it to you, Deanna. :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: elizabeth bear</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3645</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabeth bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3645</guid>
		<description>Because we&#039;re writing in English, not Irish.

Uisgebaugh is a corruption of &quot;uisge beatha.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because we&#8217;re writing in English, not Irish.</p>
<p>Uisgebaugh is a corruption of &#8220;uisge beatha.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: green_knight</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3644</link>
		<dc:creator>green_knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3644</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth, thanks for the reply!

As for Irish (and by extention, any other foreign language) spellings - _why_ would Websters/OED be the last word? Why not go back to the source? It was a real wince-worthy moment for me - not quite &#039;book/wall interface&#039; but almost. 

Don&#039;t know if I&#039;m feeling that energetic right now, but given how strongly I feel, I probably shall!

(And where did you get Uisgebaugh from, if I may ask?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth, thanks for the reply!</p>
<p>As for Irish (and by extention, any other foreign language) spellings &#8211; _why_ would Websters/OED be the last word? Why not go back to the source? It was a real wince-worthy moment for me &#8211; not quite &#8216;book/wall interface&#8217; but almost. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m feeling that energetic right now, but given how strongly I feel, I probably shall!</p>
<p>(And where did you get Uisgebaugh from, if I may ask?)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: elizabeth bear</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3640</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabeth bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3640</guid>
		<description>Regarding &lt;i&gt;Blood &amp; Iron&lt;/i&gt;: &quot;Fae&quot; and &quot;fey&quot; are not used interchangeably at all. &quot;Fae,&quot; (uppercase) is used to refer to the species; &quot;fey&quot; (lowercase) is used as an adjectival form: &quot;of faerie.&quot; A subtle difference. 

And yes, many characters in the book have more than one name. Or a title and a name. Or several titles and several names.

(Wait until the next book; Christofer/Christopher/Kit Marley/Marlowe/Marloe/Merlin makes an appearance, and brings in tow his seventeen or twenty name-spellings.)

As for the spelling of mythical places, Webster&#039;s wins, and if Webster&#039;s doesn&#039;t have it, the OED wins. It is the Way.

Even when it pisses me off.

You could take it up with the people who write NAL&#039;s house style sheets if you felt energetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding <i>Blood &amp; Iron</i>: &#8220;Fae&#8221; and &#8220;fey&#8221; are not used interchangeably at all. &#8220;Fae,&#8221; (uppercase) is used to refer to the species; &#8220;fey&#8221; (lowercase) is used as an adjectival form: &#8220;of faerie.&#8221; A subtle difference. </p>
<p>And yes, many characters in the book have more than one name. Or a title and a name. Or several titles and several names.</p>
<p>(Wait until the next book; Christofer/Christopher/Kit Marley/Marlowe/Marloe/Merlin makes an appearance, and brings in tow his seventeen or twenty name-spellings.)</p>
<p>As for the spelling of mythical places, Webster&#8217;s wins, and if Webster&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t have it, the OED wins. It is the Way.</p>
<p>Even when it pisses me off.</p>
<p>You could take it up with the people who write NAL&#8217;s house style sheets if you felt energetic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deanna Hoak</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3639</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Hoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3639</guid>
		<description>Yaron: Given how often I&#039;ve seen it misspelled, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the misspelling creeps into official English; that often happens. M-W Collegiate (the standard in publishing) doesn&#039;t list the double-r spelling yet, and M-W Unabridged and the OED don&#039;t list the word at all.

Heidi: It is always nice to be confident in what you&#039;re writing. :-) A lot of the editing mistakes authors hate the most come about because the copyeditor &quot;corrects&quot; something that was right in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yaron: Given how often I&#8217;ve seen it misspelled, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the misspelling creeps into official English; that often happens. M-W Collegiate (the standard in publishing) doesn&#8217;t list the double-r spelling yet, and M-W Unabridged and the OED don&#8217;t list the word at all.</p>
<p>Heidi: It is always nice to be confident in what you&#8217;re writing. :-) A lot of the editing mistakes authors hate the most come about because the copyeditor &#8220;corrects&#8221; something that was right in the first place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yaron</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3638</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3638</guid>
		<description>Not that it&#039;s an excuse (not a very good one, anyway), but some of these misspelled baristi you received might have actually been checked by the authors to verify their spelling.

A common way to do that is to, obviously, see if the word is in a dictionary. And on-line/computer dictionaries are often faster to use than printed ones, and often suggest spelling alternatives if you put it a misspelled word.

Maybe the most popular on-line dictionary currently is the one at dictionary.reference.com , which is both pretty decent with spelling suggestions, and contains several different dictionaries so it&#039;s easy to get a slightly wider range of definitions.

They have a single source for a definition of barista. They *also* have one for barrista. From the same source, a certain &quot;Webster&#039;s New Millenniumâ„¢ Dictionary of English&quot;.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barrista

Since such mistakes are usually rare, finding a word in dictionary would normally be enough to convince people it&#039;s spelled properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that it&#8217;s an excuse (not a very good one, anyway), but some of these misspelled baristi you received might have actually been checked by the authors to verify their spelling.</p>
<p>A common way to do that is to, obviously, see if the word is in a dictionary. And on-line/computer dictionaries are often faster to use than printed ones, and often suggest spelling alternatives if you put it a misspelled word.</p>
<p>Maybe the most popular on-line dictionary currently is the one at dictionary.reference.com , which is both pretty decent with spelling suggestions, and contains several different dictionaries so it&#8217;s easy to get a slightly wider range of definitions.</p>
<p>They have a single source for a definition of barista. They *also* have one for barrista. From the same source, a certain &#8220;Webster&#8217;s New Millenniumâ„¢ Dictionary of English&#8221;.<br />
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barrista" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barrista</a></p>
<p>Since such mistakes are usually rare, finding a word in dictionary would normally be enough to convince people it&#8217;s spelled properly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: heidi</title>
		<link>http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/comment-page-1/#comment-3626</link>
		<dc:creator>heidi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 04:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deannahoak.com/2006/10/04/ponderings/#comment-3626</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve only got good copyediting stories--smooth, trouble-free exchanges between me and the editor.

There is one minor anecdote: one editor asked if I could expand a section in an article.  The editor wanted to see more info on the &quot;minstrel&quot; tradition&#039;s influence on the development of the subject.

I thought it quite nice that I knew the proper term was &quot;bardic&quot; tradition... but then, that&#039;s why I was the one writing the article.

It is one of my better articles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve only got good copyediting stories&#8211;smooth, trouble-free exchanges between me and the editor.</p>
<p>There is one minor anecdote: one editor asked if I could expand a section in an article.  The editor wanted to see more info on the &#8220;minstrel&#8221; tradition&#8217;s influence on the development of the subject.</p>
<p>I thought it quite nice that I knew the proper term was &#8220;bardic&#8221; tradition&#8230; but then, that&#8217;s why I was the one writing the article.</p>
<p>It is one of my better articles.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

