Those of you who know me even moderately well know that I am a very strong advocate of breastfeeding. I’ve nursed both my children, and I’ve done so at any time and in any place that they needed to be fed. It is my right, and the right of my children, that I be able to do so.
Via comes the news that LJ has disallowed a woman from having a primary icon that shows her breastfeeding her child.
Another user, , has posted some of her correspondence with LJ about this matter, and she does so beautifully. What strikes me the most about what LJ has said are these sentences:
We fully support our users’ right to make their own decisions regarding parenting choices and styles, and we appreciate the dedication of parents who have chosen to participate in breastfeeding activism and education. We ask only that you are willing to extend the same support and appreciation to, for instance, parents who choose to believe that it is inappropriate for their children to view unsolicited nudity in public.
You see, the problem with that is that for a breastfeeding mom to offer that “support” to those parents who are offended by public breastfeeding, by default she must not nurse her baby in public. You cannot latch a new infant on properly without being able to see your nipple. Believe me, I’ve tried. You cannot put the baby under a blanket and make sure it’s latched on right. If you do use a blanket after you have the baby latched on, you draw the disapproving stares of all the people to whom you’re advertising what you’re doing and are offended by it.
It’s not a sexual act, people! I’m getting so sick of this bullshit.
I just filed an abuse report letting them know that Livejournal is harrassing someone for using a breastfeeding icon.
I was just reading all that. What a load of crap. I especially get boggled about the idea that it’s inappropriate for a child to see a mother feeding her child. In a reasonable world, children should be very familiar with the concept, having so recently been suckled themselves.
Considering some of the other icons all over LJ, that’s a little extreme. You know, I NEVER had any problems with anyone when I breastfed, and I did it everywhere and I did it for 18 months. People are so fucking weird.
Sometimes tolerance runs smack into other tolerance, without any possibility for resolution. There are other values than tolerance, though, and I think we should value healthy babies a fair amount!
I’ve seen bikinis which show more flesh than is visible with the average breast-feeding baby.
Will LJ outlaw icons of women wearing those bikinis?
How much exposed flesh makes a breast “unsolicited nudity”?
Does this extend to the male breast?
So many questions, so little sense….
We fully support our users’ right to make their own decisions regarding parenting choices and styles,
Bloody generous of them, supporting something that they have no business interfering in in the first place, eh?
and we appreciate the dedication of parents who have chosen to participate in breastfeeding activism and education.
“… we just don’t appreciate it enough to allow that education to happen here.”
We ask only that you are willing to extend the same support and appreciation to, for instance, parents who choose to believe that it is inappropriate for their children to view unsolicited nudity in public.
The parents who believe breasts are dirty, shameful things have my full support. If they chose to block their kids’ browsers from LJ, or to unplug their kids’ internet connections altogether, or to send them off to a remote monastery in the mountains where they never have to be confronted with the evils of human society, hey, more power to them. But why should I “support” and “appreciate” anyone who wants to limit what *I*, and the rest of my fellow adults, can say or show?
So, this or even this is okay/art, but a woman in the act of providing for her child is offensive? And yet… children are still viewing unsolicited nudity or private acts in public. Obviously what is really offensive is the open display of parents caught in the act of parenting.
Thanks for the heads up!
I know. I’m unbelievably frustrated by this. I’ve run into more than my share of prejudice against breastfeeding lately, and I’m on edge about it. :-P
Do you remember the story from last winter about the mom who made a snow-mom breastfeeding a snow-baby, and the police came and told her take it down? I was looking for a link just now and haven’t found it. :-/ It’s just all so ridiculous.
Six Apart U.S.A. »
548 4th Street, San Francisco, CA 94107 (Map)
Tel: 415 344 0056* – Fax: 415 344 0829
Anyone tried phoning?
You know that I disagree with you on the breastfeeding thing. I’ll add to that the question about lj–what about all the other photos and user icons showing nudity IN a sexual way? There’s plenty of that. (I’m fine with it, BTW, but it is certainly there, aplenty.)
You disagree with me? No, I didn’t know that. :-)
Public breastfeeding makes me a little uncomfortable because, as a guy, I’m afraid that if I glance at a woman and her baby, she, or someone else is going to think that I’m a leering pervert hoping for a glimpse of her naked breast.
I also worry a bit that I might be intruding on a beautiful moment between a mother and her child.
Nature just offends some people. Jeez.
Apparently some users are in touch with Six Apart’s media person, and are going to be talking to her about the situation tomorrow. LJ Abuse has quite a history of being blatantly unreasonable and getting carried away with their power, unfortunately.
Meanwhile, LJ won’t remove a video of a woman crushing cats with her high heels from a kitten community because, despite the fact that animal cruelty is actually illegal in most places, they say this doesn’t constitute abuse.
You’ve got to be shitting me.
I’m sorry for just poppin’ in here. Was linked by a friend.
Dang, I’m glad you brought this up. I’m so pissed I can’t put together a coherant sentance.
And Damn right it’s not a sexual act. Especially when you’re in it for the long haul. I ‘ve nursed just about everywhere and through everything a fussy child can demand and I regularly see people with far more exposed in blatently sexual ways then I’ve provided access to.
Dang… Definately gotta link some people to this.
Just call me madam le moo, and let me find that camera.
This is specifically about defaults, since there are several places on the site where users are represented by their default userpics. You can do whatever you like with the rest of them.
Cool. Anyone tried the media?
I’ve also nursed 2 children. Six apart won’t allow the nursing icon, but they do allow all sorts of violent and sexual icons (I’ve seen the back pose of a lady wearing a thong and holding a whip for example) . What’s up with that?!?
Sorry! I meant to type that I don’t disagree with you. Guess my fingers were lazy! :}
If you want to challenge society’s taboos against public nudity, you will have to put up with the negative feedback.
I was just thinking about this issue the other day, as someone was discussing the downside of her job (a more resttrictive dress policy). But all costumes are situational: no one wears a bathing suit to a job interview, and no one shows up in a three-piece suit to go swimming.
As for the specifics of LJ’s policy towards breastfeeding icons, you have two separate coplaints: lack of consistency, and that breastfeeding is not a sexual act. You might be able to carrry the former arguement, but the latter argument — that your public nudity should not be offensive to societal norms — is a crusade that you’ll be fighting for a long, long, time. (And in my opinion, one that you will lose.)
I’m gobsmacked. Ab-so-lute-ly freakin’ ridiculous.
But all costumes are situational: no one wears a bathing suit to a job interview, and no one shows up in a three-piece suit to go swimming.
I honestly don’t see how this has anything whatsoever to do with breastfeeding. When my baby needs fed, or when I need to feed my baby (people who think you ought to give a bottle in public clearly don’t realize that a breastfeeding mom is going to suffer extreme discomfort from the milk building up if she just skips a feeding), that is the only “situation” that is relevant.
Honestly, no, I don’t believe it is a battle I will lose. Many states now have laws protecting breastfeeding mothers, stating very specifically that they are allowed to nurse their child in any place they are allowed to be. Illinois, where you are, clarifies the issue in law this way:
I honestly don’t think either of those is a valid worry, Wolf. As long as you’re not staring at the woman, or leering at her and winking, or something along those lines, you’re not going to offend.
And intruding on a beautiful moment…? Eh. :-) I love it that I’ve nursed my kids and given them what I thought was the absolute best, and at some times nursing is a beautiful thing. It’s something a breastfeeding mom spends hours every day on, though, and at some point it really just becomes “feeding the kid.”
Whenever I see a woman breastfeeding, I always make it a point to tell her how wonderful it is to see a nursing mom. Several people have done that for me (even one guy!), and it has always meant a lot.
I realize it’s about defaults. Disallowing a breastfeeding child as a default icon is, by extension, the same as saying that public breastfeeding is unacceptable.
If LJ is going to ban pictures of breastfeeding because it features nudity, then they should ban all pictures that feature nudity.
I wonder why they’re not.
I can’t speak to that issue.
I think the legislature is far ahead of the populace’s general tolerance. I also wonder if the law permits exposing a nipple in order to breast feed.
I also wonder if the law permits exposing a nipple in order to breast feed.
Yes, it does:
Oh, I’m aware. My comment was directed at the previous comment, not at your entry.
I have to wonder at this law. It seems to authorize a woman to breast-feed inside an Orthodox synagogue in public, which is behavior that would rightlfully be viewed as an infringment on the religious liberties of the congregants.
Under this particular law (other states differ, obviously) places of worship are the only public places from which a woman has no “right of action” to sue for not being allowed to breastfeed; she is asked to “comport her behavior with the norms appropriate in that place of worship.”
Thanks, I’ll stop pestering you and look up the details myself.
However, the law clearly violates the rights of individuals and businesses to establish norms of behavior.
If we’re talking about the icon that looks like a painting, it’s not at all obvious to me that that’s supposed to be a baby breastfeeding. It looks like two adults. Is that the one we’re discussing? (I think it’s dumb either way, I am just curious.)
(To clarify, by “it’s dumb” I mean the banning of the icon is dumb, not that the icon itself is dumb.)
Deanna- it is all so blatantly wrong to insinuate that breast-feeding is somehow inappropriate or ‘sexual’ so I would suggest everyone use the icon that my friend has put on his LJ in protest of Six Apart’s ridiculous actions!
Link here:
http://louiscypher.livejournal.com/profile
Hmmm, I thinks its probably sort of a WTMI thing for a lot of people. Yes, Its legal to do, but, like a fat man in a speedo, its not something most people wanna have suddenly injected into their day.
Personally I dont give a shit.
This is so ridiculous, American priorities are completely screwed up. The media pumps our children full of violence and depravity(and that is just the cartoons) and we fear the world is going to come to and end if someone, G-d forbid, sees a nipple.
Nursing a child is not a “behavior.” The law clearly protects the rights of breastfeeding mothers to feed their babies. People like you would force me to make the physically unhealthy choice (for my child) of feeding formula, or the emotionally unhealthy choice (for me) of never going out in public, or of removing myself from friends and family every time my child needed to nurse if I did. I’m enormously grateful and thankful not to be forced into those situations, and my children are inarguably better off for it.
Clearly you don’t agree, and neither of us are going to change our minds. Luckily, the law protects me and other mothers.
Thanks, Fee. :-) I’ll see what happens with all this. I may end up moving my blog.
I’d be sorry to see you do that Deanna. I think Six Apart will find they have opened a can of worms here- WHO supports breastfeeding and as you have stated so does the US Legal System, so really they are just going to get nothing but bad publicity out of this. I think it is time to change this antiquated and sexist attitude and their ridiculous premise that a default user icon should not show a woman breast-feeding her infant. because it may harm someone’s sensibilities. Please stay and fight this! And if I can do anything to help from afar in a legal capacity just let me know.
Your absolutely right, it is not a sexual act. It is an act of love and sacrifice, the mother giving up a portion of herself for her baby. How can that offend people?
I chose to breastfeed both of my children because it was a tradition in my family. My mother breastfed her children, my sister breastfed hers, and my cousins did the same.
Once I studied medicine and found out how important it is to breastfeed your children, I now recommend it to any patient who is pregnant. Babies brains need a lot of fat in order for the neurons to mature and connect better. The type of fat that they need is produced in the mother’s milk in just the right proportion. The immunoglobulins passed in the milk are protective to the infant up to six months of age, and this is very important in helping the infants immune system fight infection. Any other formula does not offer this protection.
We are not cows and do not have four stomachs, nor do we have a bovine brain!
By the way, you have an interesting blog, adding you as a friend! I found you by way of my husband’s blog .
Thanks. I added you back. :-)(
Yes, this situation is incredibly frustrating; the latest on it is here. Six Apart is still not allowing breastfeeding icons as defaults if any portion of the nipple shows.
As far as I know, exposed breasts are considered “not worksafe” and even pornographics by law in areas of the US, regardless of the reason for their exposure. Perhaps efforts would be better focused on trying to change the social and legal attitude towards bare breasts in the US as a whole rather than on an internet journal site, which hardly represents the entire US, and is actually a product of the laws rather than a lawmaking body, eh?
The law already does protect exposed breasts in the context of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is specifically exempt from public indecency and nudity statutes. That’s why people are so upset.
As did those pesky laws that forced lunch counters to serve black patrons, or busses to let black riders sit up front…
This is a fascinating redefinition of civil rights: the right to strip naked and perform personal bodily functions — not just in public, but in privately-owned establishments.
Personally, I’d define anyone who actually thinks that “baring a breast to feed a child” is equivalent to “doing a naked pole dance while peeing” as “mentally ill”. But that’s just me.